FT~ stopped!! just getting interested....
now it is interesting how TEAGy will countattack, a strong opening need to be set here!!

Ok, finally I was able to catch up with you guys.
It is really a fun debate to watch. A great topic and a group of people knows how to express their idea. Moreover, the jokes are killing me. :) Aya's Richard Gere joke, the flying pig one. I do think both side present well. Depends on what's you definition on "make". Either side can be a win win.
After reading all posts, my understanding is cloth represents a person(class, style, etc). It doesn't make a person to be who they are. A little cute pig is always a little cute pig, doesn't matter it has feather or not.

oncogenes and teagy [em00]