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2020-11-12 22:53:54

回复 10楼一笑生花的帖子

不,我没有觉得神是观音菩萨。我只是觉得,按照神所说的去做,顺服他,会在life里make a difference。就像这个帖子里的见证,汽车打滑毫发无损,肾坏了有换肾,不就是证明么?可见大家也知道如果说信主了信的很好然后遇到各种灾难,不是具有说服力的例子。但是在你说的例子里我没看到difference,无非就是心态的好坏。如果说面对痛苦不被压倒,那非基督徒也可以做到啊。。。也许他们信的不是主而是别的,比如那些指望死后有回报的圣战士,也可能他们就是心态平和。YouTube里其他宗教的异能,托梦,也并不少啊。
我信主,想尽力照着去做,是因为我觉得他说的教诲是对的,也受益了。但我很难被说服说受尽苦难然后死掉(哪怕心情喜乐地死掉)是恩典,或者指望死后有个什么世界。如果活出了基督徒的样子,神难道不更应该显明大能,让他们活下去,终生赞美主,让世人看一看么?最后,想要在人世间得平安生命和想要死后进入天国,不都是和神提要求做交易吗?无非是活着得到和死后得到的区别罢了。我也说句实话,我觉得很多基督徒很容易被offended,但是这些疑惑是很多不信主的人都有的,而且逻辑上从来没有得到过圆满。你用上帝拯救人生命的例子来证明上帝的存在,然后又说上帝不拯救基督徒的生命时候是因为救命不是神所预备的恩典,这个我很难理解。当然我信仰还在很浅薄的水平,可能你说的境界我还不能理解吧

vivi_www 发表于 2019-07-23 15:47

在我看来(就是我目前的理解,理解是会变的,根据我们信仰的成熟程度),“受尽苦难然后死掉(哪怕心情喜乐地死掉)“ 并不是恩典. 恩典是我们被基督耶稣的血洗干净之前的罪,以前的罪被上帝因此一笔勾销既往不咎,通过基督耶稣完成的新约,重新跟上帝建立联系 ,之后通过圣灵(the Spirit of truth)的灌溉, 在基督耶稣中活出新的生命, 虽然我们完全不deserve it。上帝爱世人,上帝在诅咒蛇的时候主动承诺救主耶稣会降临,给刚刚犯罪的人类救赎的希望 (Genesis 3:15 I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.”)


因为不论大罪杀人,小罪偷窃欺骗,所有罪的后果是死,Romans 6:23 (KJV) For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. 自亚当夏娃吃了智慧树的禁果之后,并不像撒旦蛇说的,像上帝那样知道善恶 (Genesis 3:5  For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.) 我们从小到大,在基督里重生之前,没有sin过吗?我知道我有,很多回,从小时候对父母撒谎开始,到不知道上帝之前跟男友同居。因为人已经不知道上帝的名 (就跟四百年后,在埃及的摩西的民众一样),而潜心于追随自己重新定义的善恶了。


1 Corinthians 15:21 ESV)For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 这句经文里第一个人是吃了禁果的亚当,第二个让死人复生的,是基督耶稣。


如果活出了基督徒的样子,神难道不更应该显明大能,让他们活下去,终生赞美主,让世人看一看么?“ ——活出基督的样子,那么耶稣基督在被世界迫害的样子和做法,亦是我们需要承受的,when we are conformed to the image of Christ. Romans 8:29, ESV:  For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.


Also, 


Revelation 6:9-11, ESV: When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been. 



“想要在人世间得平安生命和想要死后进入天国,不都是和神提要求做交易吗?” ——这个不是交易。人和撒旦魔鬼交易,是以失去永生(eternal life) / perish 的代价; 可是,新约的建立,耶稣基督的殉难和复生,还有圣灵的降临,完全是上帝单方面对人的恩慈/ 救恩 Grace, 还有就是基督耶稣对上帝完全的爱, 所以他完全obey God(此处对比身为上帝的长子亚当),完成了新约。


在Exodus结尾 40:35 (KJV): And Moses was not able to enter into the tent of the congregation, because the cloud abode thereon, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. 摩西不能进上帝的帐, 因为man are unholy, but God is Holy. Holiness cannot tolerate unholiness, 而且Holiness 会destroy unholiness. 比如Aaron’s son Nadab and Abihu was killed by God instantly as they offered “strange fire” that was unholy to God, in Leviticus 10:1-2。所以旧约里解决摩西和之后的祭司不能进上帝的帐, 接近上帝的方法,就是Leviticus to Deuteronomy 里面的需要一直重复,献祭赎罪的律法条例,


 新约的建立,圣灵降到人身上,所以每个人都可以通过基督耶稣的殉难 (water baptism symbolism:old us die with the sin) 和圣灵 (the Holy Spirit) 降到我们身上让我们spiritually重生之后(John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.),知道上帝的善恶的定义,不再sin, 而且结出the fruit in the true vine of Christ Jesus, that glorifies God (John 15:1-11, the parable of the true vine)。这些人,是 wheat, 不是 weeds, 是要被上帝收到仓中的 (Matthew 13:24-30, ESV, The parable of the weeds: 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, “Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’) 收到仓中, 是自然而然要发生的rewards/ 结果. 


上帝和他说的话不会变 (Numbers 23:19 God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?) 所以上帝告诉摩西, 上帝的名是 ”I Am That I Am” (Exodus 3:14 KJV). 上帝和亚当说吃了智慧树的果子,人必会死 (Genesis 2:17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”)所以人之后会死(因为sin),是必然。同时,上帝对亚当说的人类subdue the earth 的计划,一直到没有变 (“Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living things that moveth upon the earth. —Genesis 1:28, KJV), 只不过,subdue earth 的这个original inheritance, 没有被长子亚当继承,而是次子基督 (类似的次子取代长子的,还有Jacobs to Esau, Ephraim to Manasseh…).

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.


新约的意义在于上帝的灵能在之前的罪都被基督赎罪(atonement)之后,入驻洗干净的人心内,人从此知道上帝的善恶的定义,不再sin. 所以人在死之前,有这段重生的在基督里的生命,是审判日能站在火中的work (1 Corinthians 3:13 KJV): Every man''''s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man''''s work of what sort it is.


Hebrew 10:16-18 (ESV): “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,” then he adds,

“I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”

Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.


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